[Lucidus and Dubius] Interroga patres tuos et dicent tibi. f.54v LUCIDUS. The formyst fadere žat formed 3ou all, the wytt and že wysdom of his sonne dere, že lore of že Holy Goste which y call to marke že matere to 3our mynde which 3e shul heere. 5 My name is Doctour Lucidus, a doctour of že lawe, to 3ou hidere y come, the sothe for to say, questions to asoyle žat be to men vnknawe. Herkene, žer-fore, good sires, feyre y 3ou pray. A doctour of dyuynete ful wyde am y knowe. 10 Clerely kan y answere to questiouns of dowte, žat beth now on že peple wonderly sowe, and mevith hem at hire maungery whan žei ben on a rowte. But what, what! Y know hem euerychon; 15 Y dowte neuere oon. Some man may preue; there-fore wolde y žat some man boldely a questioun wolde meve. 20 DUBIUS. A, God the safe, Doctour gent, myn owen maister verament, y know 3ou by že speche. LUCIDUS. Whi so, childe? What is ži name? DUBIUS. Dubius, sire, all in game, 25 žat 3e were wonte to teche. LUCIDUS. What, is ži name Dubius? DUBIUS. 3e, syr, for sothe y-wis. f.55r LUCIDUS. Dubius is douteful for to say; žis is a queynte name. 30 DUBIUS. So y am doutful, in good fay; there-of y bere the fame. LUCIDUS. Dubius, sith žou were my clerk, sey where žou dwellest nowthe. DUBIUS. With euery man on his werk 35 Dubius is ful kowthe. And, sothe for to telle, spare y nelle; some-what y dwelle with religion in celle, 40 jn cite, town, vplonde, in sothe; y haue dwellid thare with kyngis and lordis bothe, to wite, bothe quid and quare. And y haue made on this londe 45 a newe curtesy y-fonde, that whan men beth y-sette and are serued at hire mette y bringe forth quare and quid and serue hem there-with, 50 that is to say, whi and what, and so eche man spekith of žat; so žat a burel sleve with-oute ony mannys leve, and brynge forth quid and quare, 55 and preest and clerk he wyl nat spare, and meve so hye such a question žan he confoundith his reson; and so žurgh že answere of what and why bothe fallen in-to heresy. 60 LUCIDUS. On heresy, God forbede! Speke thy wordis softe. DUBIUS. 3is, sir, so God me spede, f.55v openly and ofte. LUCIDUS. Than it comyth thurgh Dubius mevynge? 65 DUBIUS. 3e, syr, that is no lesynge; jt is myn owen crafte. LUCIDUS. Y pray the, herdist žou in contre men suche questiones meve? DUBIUS. Syr, y wyl 3ou telle eche worde 70 and 3e wyl 3eve me leve. LUCIDUS. Sey on, Dubius, for thy fay. DUB[I]US. Y wyl, maister, with-oute delay 3oure wytte wyl y preue. The laste question is this 75 žat y herde meved y-wis: sith God made al thynge of no3t and he was ere the world were wro3t, jt semyth be-fore the worldis makynge that he ledde a solitary levynge. 80 LUCIDUS. Nay, alone my3t he nat be. Take hede and thou shalt se: a carpontere žat shal make a byldynge he caste it first in his thynkynge, and erste than he make his gynne 85 on his kunynge comyth eche pynne. So God in for-knowynge hadde al creaturis ere he hem made, so they with God in forknowynge ere than they had outwarde beynge. 90 Thus God alone my3t nat be; by this example žou maist se. DUBIUS. 3it a question y aske of the: whi made God alle creaturis? LUCIDUS. For there sholde suche thynge be f.56r 95 that sholde reseyue of his goodnys. DUBIUS. Sith God made the first man that men seith was Adam, telle alle men fre and bonde, made God Adam with his honde? 100 LUCIDUS. Nay, with his worde he made hym Out of the see slym, žat euery man bothe more and lasse sholde thynke hou brotil he is of kende, and how he shal here hennys passe, 105 as wynde or worde, and make an ende. DUBIUS. Why made he hym of so foule a matere? LUCIDUS. To shame with Lucyfer, that he žat was made of so foule a thynge sholde be his overlynge, 110 and žat man sholde sitte in ioye an hye Fro[m] the which he fille and flye. DUBIUS. 3it an-other questyon y kan: where-of made God Eve? LUCIDUS. Of Adamys flessh and boon, 115 as we holy beleve. DUBIUS. Why was she nat made and bore of the erthe as Adam was a-fore? LUCIDUS. Sir, the skyle is this and že poynte: that as thei were oo flessh and boon 120 they sholde be on euery ioynte jn loue and herte oon and oon; and eche man al-so and his wyf, sith thei be oo flessh and blood, loue sholde lette hem fro stryf f.56v 125 and make hem of oo wylle and mode. DUBIUS. Why made nat God Adam so žat he ne my3t haue do no synne? Me semyth it had be wel y-do that euery man sholde heuen wynne. 130 LUCIDUS. Syr, God made Adam on suche manere žat he was fre of worke and wylle, and eche of his after-comere to do whethere they wolde, good or ylle. So man stode on his fre wyll 135 to chese what he wolde do, and as his werke is good or ylle, so muste his mede be there-to: that if he wolde euel forsake, than muste Goodnes his mede aquyte; 140 and if he wylle to euel take, his owen wylle he mote it wyte. DUBIUS. 3it telle here be-fore vs alle o thynge that y shal aske of the: sith Adam wolde in synne falle, 145 why suffred God hym temptid be? LUCIDUS. God suffred for this entent, that sith Adam wolde in synne falle, Crist, Godis sonne verament, shold make vs fre žat so were thralle; 150 with his deth after on the tre he thou3t he sholde by mankynne, and there-fore Adam suffred he to tempted be and falle in synne. DUBIUS. Nay, par-de! 155 God is ri3t and ri3tfulnesse, and wolde žat no wrong were done. f.57r That were wronge and al a-mys to suffre sle his owen sone, and namly for man ful of synne 160 to suffre an jnnocent to dey and spylle; God wolde no such worke begynne; he may noon don in wronge ne wylle. LUCIDUS. A, syre! God suffred his sonne man be dede, 165 thurgh charite, loue, and žat was ry3t, to put a-wey man fro the quede, for noon othere it do my3t. And ri3tful loue and resoun wolde žat Goddis sonne the Feende shold stroy, 170 for othere was of no my3t so bolde that of the Feende my3t haue maystry; and as the Feende had alle men slawe thurgh the venym of his envy, so Crist the Feend adoun sholde thrawe 175 and 3eue man lyf whan he sholde dey. DUBIUS. Now, good syr, gentyl and wyse, how long was Adam and Eve in paradyse? LUCIDUS. vij houris thei were in paradyse, vij houris and no moo, 180 and for an appel of litel pryse they were put out bothe twoo. The thirde houre after Adamys makynge Adam 3af alle beestis hire name; the sixthe houre, with-oute lesynge 185 was made Eve, the first dame; and anoon of the appel she ete, and to trespace she be-gan; f.57v and tho she was put oute by že heed, bothe she and eke Adam. 190 DUBIUS. Whi, whi was the appel so worthy žat alle men there-fore sholde deed be? A man may haue a pek for a peny! Me semyth it may nat so be. LUCIDUS. Nay, nat for the applis worthynes, 195 but for his vnbuxumnes, that he wolde of the appel note žat God had hem bothe forbode. There-fore euery seruaunt, as y rede, sholde obeye his souereyne, 200 on alle goodnes to haue his mede and to avoyde helle peyne. DUBIUS. Lorde, syr, what thynge is paradyse, and what place may it be? LUCIDUS. Syr, a place of al delyte it is. 205 Herkene and y wyl tellen the. Jt is a place grene and swete, of spysis, trees, and of flouris, with-oute hungere, colde, or hete, with-oute tempest or shouris; 210 ryveris rennynge, songe ful swete, mirthe, ioy with-oute ende, lyf and helthe shul euer mete, age and seeknes shul thennys wende. There is froyt folke with to fede, 215 lusty to mete for all seeknes; žere is no sorowe, doute, ne drede; euerlastynge lyf and all goodnes. DUBIUS. Now that was a mery place! f.58r And y had be there žat Adam was 220 y wolde nat haue go thenne; for he is ri3t a grete foole žat is in so mery an hoole and holdith hym nat žer-inne. But sir, sire, was Adam sory for his trespas? 225 LUCIDUS. 3e, forsothe, that he was, and for his trespas sake he wolde fayne amendis make. DUBIUS. Now sith God was ful of all goodnes, of mercy and grace to men ful of synne, 230 and Adam was sory of his wykkednes, why ne had God saued hym? LUCIDUS. Herken! Lucifer was put from heuen for no dedly synne žat he wro3t, 235 but for he thought to be even to God with-in on his tho3t. Than sith God dampned an angel for synne of pryde only in thou3t, he my3t nat be ri3tful dome wel 240 safe Adam žat synne out wro3t. DUBIUS. How may God worshiped be to se his handworke dampned so? A man is liche God, parde: how may he suffre hym in wo? 245 LUCIDUS. Thou mevest a question of pite, but herkene and y wyl telle the. A childe that were of seruyse feyre and had a fader stronge and riche, f.58v if his fader wolde make hym his eyre 250 and in herte loued hym myche, on case this childe wolde his fader spyse, his lawes, his loue, his heestis forsake, it muste plese his fader in al wyse his heritage from hym take. 255 So ho forsokež Goddis lawe, though he be liche God verament, resoun wyl žat he be thrawe fro blys in-to turment; and alle ry3tfulnesse 260 is plesaunt to God and alle his goodnesse. DUBIUS. A, a, y se wel be thy menynge a man muste euer God plese. LUCIDUS. 3e, žat is no lesynge, or ellis he shal his heritage lese. 265 DUBIUS. Good sire, telle for 3oure honoure, how longe was Lucifer in heuen? LUCIDUS. Forsothe, nat fullich an houre that he ne fylle then. DUBIUS. Y pray 3ou, syr, what synne had he do ought? 270 LUCIDUS. Non othere but that he was proude in thou3t, thynkyng to haue a better state than God had sette hym ate. And for žat thou3t, y 3ou telle, žat angel was caste to helle, 275 and with hym fylle as many mo as consentid to pride al-so. žere-for lete no man be proude jn hert with-in ne in worke with-oute. DUBIUS. What, fille žey alle to helle in-fere? f.59r 280 LUCIDUS. Nay syr, some dwellith amonge vs here, to preve men in hire levynge and knowe what žat men wyl do if thei may fro blys men brynge and carye hem to helle wo. 285 DUBIUS. Where-to so, where-to so? What helpith it že Feend do so, to brynge men to fyre and payne? Me semyth they workith hemself wo: his worke may nat avayle thayme. 290 Whi, what is the Feende že better at ese žat a man is in payne pitte to make sorowe and payne euer mare? Me semyth it is a lewde wytte. He is worthi euel to fare 295 that loueth to make sorowe and care. LUCIDUS. Thus may y answere on this manere. O cause is that he ne wolde žat man sholde come to heuen clere there as he haue be sholde, 300 for it were to hym gretter paynynge than al the paynes žat he my3t bere to se man žat was so foul a thynge come to blysse where he was ere; and for that were to hym more confusion 305 he sesith neuer fro temptacion. An-other resoun is this: for he is the porter of helle and turmentith soulis y-wis žat for synne there doth dwelle, 310 as ry3t wyl, as y rede, f.59v žat wykkednes wyl haue a wykked mede. And so for voydynge of his shame, and for to do his office a-ryght, he brengith euer men in blame 315 with al his powere day and nyght. Now, now! Y come neuer in no place žat me be-happed no such grace that suche a boy, so 3onge a thynge, 320 put to me such aposynge. DUBIUS. Petir, žou madist ry3t now bostynge, and seidest žou woldist answere to al thynge. žou shalt knowe žat žou comyst hider to rathe here to answere or to apose, 325 for thou shalt fynde a childe of Bathe to caste a question at thy nose. And y thanke God y fynde že here. LUCIDUS. Why so, bew syre? DUBIUS. Telle why y kan, 330 for žou arte the same man, for thou tawghtis me fewe 3ere. Y know him by the grete hode; he wolde me bete as he were wode, and make my buttokis sore. 335 But here hou mayst me nat a-reche; with sputynge y wyl meself a-wreche. Y haue ordeyned alle there-fore. LUCIDUS. Syr, y dede but as resoun ys: y bete the for thou were dubius, 340 betwene ernest and game. DUBIUS. Mary, me semed žou dedist a-mys, for euery clerk is dubius; f.60r y kowde the Goddis grame. LUCIDUS. A, syr, y come nat hider for to chide. 345 DUBIUS. No, thou hast meved a good borde. Y wyl the shame of thi worde and thou wylte a-byde. LUCIDUS. Why, what kanste thou say? DUBIUS. Y wyl aske a question with-out delay 350 to reproue thi pride. Proprio filio suo non pepersit Deus, sed pro nobis omnibus tradidit illum. God wolde that his sonne Ihesus for man deed be sholde. Than y wolde wyte what dede Iudas a-mys that hym be-tray wolde; 355 for, sith God wolde žat he sholde be deed, and Iudas dede the same, it semyth thei wro3t by oo reed; and Iudas was nat to blame, for there may no man spylle 360 that fulfyllith Goddis wylle. LUCIDUS. Nay, nay, Goddis workis and Iudas beth nat liche in oo case, for God toke his sonne man to safe for charite and loue on alle wyse, 365 and Iudas hym solde sylver to haue only for fals couetyse. Pater filium caritate, Judas cupiditate filium Dei tradidit. Hec Doctor Subtilis et Magister Sentenciarum. DUBIUS. 3it answere onys to me f.60v here openly and anon: whi was his crosse made of tre 370 more than of yren and of stoon? LUCIDUS. A, wel maist thou hote Dubius! This was že cause, y telle the. For al the sorowe and the wrake first to man of a tre 375 whan Adam wolde že appel take, therefore God deyde vpon a tre and thurgh a tre amendis wolde make; and this is the skyle, parde, whi the crosse of tre was shape. Vt qui in ligno vicerat, in ligno quoque vinceretur, per Christum dominum nostrum. 380 DUBIUS. Whan bought Crist the soulis of man, sith the Feend hem had in warde? To whom paide Crist his ranisoun? This astonyeth my wytt ful harde. LUCIDUS. Forsothe, to the Fader of Heuen. 385 He shed his blood ful leef and dere for the soulis on helle be-nethen, to haue hem out of helle powere, for that iaper Lucifer nas nat but his gayler 390 to turment hem ofte, and the soulis echon they were prsoneris on and on to God žat sitteth on lofte. Hec Magister Sentenciarum. DUBIUS. Y pray the, syr, 3it tel me this. 395 Was Cristis deth to his fader so precious that it my3t all men qwyte? LUCIDUS. The worthynes of Cristis dethe no man that hath brethe f.61r may it telle or wryte. 400 DUBIUS. Hou? Exsample lete me se. LUCIDUS. Than take good hede and herkene to me. And God stode now the be-fore, that made al this world of no3t, and thou knewe it in thyn herte more 405 that it were he žat al hath wro3t, than if one wolde sey to the, "Sle this man here the be-fore, or ellis sore, parde, al this wo(r)lde shal be lore" 410 woldist thou than Criste sle and thou knewest žat he were that? DUBIUS. Crist forbede it me that eny man shold do that. LUCIDUS. Telle me whi, 415 and whi žou noldist hym sle. DUBIUS. For Cristis lyf is more worthi than a thousand worldis may be, for of him comyth lyf and leuynge and eche thynge hath his beynge. 420 LUCIDUS. For sothe tha[n] as precious was his deyinge, that was al mannys begynnynge. DUBIUS. 3it thou shalt ben apposed onys more. Whi wolde Crist ben y-bore more of a mayde than of an-othere woman? 425 LUCIDUS. If y were preide ther-to answere y ka[n] f.61v on foure maners whi God makith man: first of the erthe as God made Adam; the secunde maner of man alone, and so of Adam come Eve; 430 the thirde maner of mannys mone, as whan wommen 3eueth hem leeve; the ferthe manere God wolde man make of clene mayde with-oute ore, as whan he dede manhod take 435 and for man a mayde was bore. DUBIUS. 3e, though thou be fel and sly 3it shalt thou nat askape so, for 3it thou tellist me nat whi Criste wolde be bore so. 440 LUCIDUS. A, douteful Dubius, doutful Dubius! The cause there-of is this. The first maide žat euer was was Eve, Adamys wyf. Sche wrou3t the first trespas 445 and made al oure wo and stryf; and as thurgh a mayde deth come in and al men were lore, Crist so wolde be Mary Virgyn alle the world restore. 450 DUBIUS. Now in good fey, Lucidus, y hoped whan y come hider y-wys-- and 3it y thynke for to asay-- to haue do the shame. LUCIDUS. Do on, y the pray; 455 begynne, on G(o)ddis name. DUBIUS. By the rode, and y wyl begynne! f.62r Sith Crist was with-out synne y wolde wyte why that he wolde take deth ought. 460 Me semyth it helpith hym noght; neyther grace he had ther-by, for he was ful of grace ynough. LUCIDUS. A, Dubius, Dubius, many questions hast thou that beth sotel and sly. 465 For his nede ry3t no3t, but for thre causis it was wro3t, that y wyl here shewy. For water hath propertees thre, and what they beth y tel hem the. 470 Jt makith thyngis clene, žat is the fyrst; the secunde is wel sene that it quenchith a mannys thyrst; jt clensith an ymage that is foule. 475 DUBIUS. That knowyth euery foole. LUCIDUS. Syr, suffre me speke my lust. So the grace of the Holy Gost whan a childe takith his baptem, jt clensith his synne most 480 that of birthe come to hym. The first of soule with-ynne, it quenchith it with Goddis worde. The ymage of God defouled with synne, it clensith it bothe ende and orde. 485 DUBIUS. 3it a question to thyn heed; f.62v hou longe lay Crist deed? That y wolde thou toldest me. LUCIDUS. To speke so angerly it is no nede, for y speke esely, parde. 490 Syr, fourty owris and no mo. DUBIUS. Good syr, what betokenyth tho? LUCIDUS. On fourty owris beth four sithis ten; that betokeneth the commaundement že foure partis of the world y-do to hem. 495 Jt meneth non other in this entent: that the foure partis of the world aboute shold to the ten heestis aloute. DUBIUS. 3it thou shalt be ones a-waked. Was Crist leyde in his tombe al naked? 500 LUCIDUS. 3e, syr, that he was. DUBIUS. Than wolde y wyte in this cas how come he to clothis so sone. LUCIDUS. Sir, he is almy3ty and euer was, and the eyre he turned anone 505 jn-to clothis thurgh his my3t, that many men them did se; and whan he styed to heuen bry3t than turd it to eyre a3e. DUBIUS. O thynge turbelith moche my thought: 510 how olde was Criste er that he taught? LUCIDUS. Syr, thirti 3eere olde, Crist than he wolde teche. To teche žat no man sholde be bolde with-in žat age for to preche. 515 DUBIUS. Of prechynge y wolde somwhat heere f.63r as prelatis and preestis sholde preche, but it sett my herte on fyre, for they do nat as they teche. But, sir, what mede shul suche craue? 520 LUCIDUS. Sir, ther-to an answere thou shalt haue. He that oo worde prechith wel and doth euel hymself, he is liche a bry3t candel that li3tith to men and wastith hymself. 525 And some nother leueth wel nother al-so techith wel, nother be wordis nother be werke; they be liche helle smoke žat strangelith mannys syght and throte 530 and brengith men in-to helle derke. DUBIUS. Lorde, oo thynge fayne y wolde wyte: sith good and euel dothe masse synge, whether the sacrament made of suche be as good on alle thynge 535 as of hem that leueth wel. LUCIDUS. 3e, forsothe, euerydel. As good it is of hym žat is no3t as of a preest žat is ou3t, for no prestis goodnesse 540 nothere no prestis wykkednesse may it apeyre ne amende. DUBIUS. Telle me that to the ende. LUCIDUS. Take hede to me, and be example žou shalt se. 545 And the sunne shyne ful clere vp-on a dongehell or a gonge, or vp-on as feyre a thyng here f.63v as eny ma[n] may telle with tonge, nother the gongis fouleness 550 nothir this thingis feyrnesse ne may že same apeire ne amende. DUBIUS. This is sothe, syr, verament. LUCIDUS. Ne more may a prestis goodnesse nother the prestis wikkedness 555 do to the sacrament. DUBIUS. 3e, 3e, y wolde žat žou woldist telle me: than sith že sacrament is so good, and is Cristis flessh and blood, and in no wyse may euel be, 560 hou may so good a thynge be cause of a mannys dampnynge? žat y pray že telle me, for y haue herde sey often-tyme žat a man of euel lyue 565 is dampned if he it take. LUCIDUS. 3e, that is nat for že sacramentis sake. Bonum non solum participanti prodest set eciam obest si contra interdictum ab eo accipitur in quo non debet. DUBIUS. Thou pratelist Latyn faste. Mary, y trow žou be agaste, or ellis žou kanst nat at laste, 570 y trowe, answere here-to. LUCIDUS. A, syr, 3e be hasty to and to. Syr, žurgh al paradis wyde and brode al the froyt was ri3t goode, and profitable to man ynough; 575 but whan Adam žer-of toke a3ens Goddis forbode, f.64r for his inobedyens hymself slough. So he žat is in synne wrapped, he is to God inobedyent; 580 than shal he be dampned for žat whan he reseyueth the sacrament. Good Dubius, good brothere, bi this exsample know žat othere. DUBIUS. If a preest be of euel leuynge 585 that hath cure and soulis to kepe, shal men be to hym obeyshynge? That wolde y fayne wete. LUCIDUS. Al-žough they be of no3t levynge and hire hestis bi Goddis lawe, 590 thou shalt obeye to hire seyinge; and nat only to hem of a strawe, but to God that sittith a-boue thou shalt obey with herte and loue. Super cathedram Moysi sederunt scribe et Pharisei. Omnia ergo quecumque dixerint vobis facite. Dicunt enim bonum suple eciam non faciunt. Magis obedire Deo quam hominibus. DUBIUS. But 3it answere ones to me. 595 And a prest be bounde with synne, how sholde he asoyle me or the whan he is depper than we there-jnne? For and y were bounde faste and close žat y my3t nat meve in no behalf, 600 hou sholde y make an-other man lose that were as faste as y myself? LUCIDUS. Syr, euery prest that hath cure, non outake what euer he be, and he stonde nat in open censure f.64v 605 than stondith it thus, as y telle the. And it be preued y-wys, be he neuer so cursed a wrecche, nat open but alle preve, he may asoyle by že office of že cherche, 610 and Criste hym soyleth and nat he. Non enim ipse, Christus per eorum officium ligat et soluit. Hec Lucidarius siue L[u]men Laycorum.